The incredible pretentiousness of my ridiculously expensive school is obnoxious. Not transferring credits from a smaller school simply because it is a community college and not a liberal arts college is absurd, especially when they are general education classes like math or basic composition courses.
There is a lot of construction happening on campus currently (why they waited until the school year began to start the project, I do not know) and I heard that if the construction workers speak to any of the students, they will get fired immediately. I have not looked for a reliable source to provide this information, but I cannot even comprehend the immense automatic class separation that my school has created. Are the students really that much better than the construction workers? Let me answer that for you:
NO.
In fact, many of the students are just as stuck up and pretentious as the school itself.
Why, you might wonder, am I here if I have such a negative view of the school. It is simple: education. I am receiving an incredible education here, and the learning style is fits like a puzzle piece into my life, which is hard to find. The professors are wonderful, the classes are small, and a select few of the students are amazing. If I were here for the people or for the degree alone, I never would have even applied.
I just wish people would stop placing themselves above everyone else when, in reality, none of us are any different from the people who surround us.
No one at this school is necessarily placing his or herself above anyone else. If this policy about the construction workers is true, it is probably in place because some wayward fellow made an inappropriate comment to a passing student, and the company wants to avoid that sort of situation entirely. Also, you should consider that these men have a job that entails swinging huge amounts of heavy shit high above the ground, and they are advised to pay attention to that rather than idle conversation.
ReplyDeleteYou say you attend this school because of its superior professors and classes, but you also complain that credits from your previous school don't have enough weight to transfer. Should you be thrilled at the opportunity to take more of these awesome classes?
love,
julian
Julian, of course I am thrilled for the class opportunities. What I am not thrilled about is possibly being here for an extra year and taking out another $15-20 thousand dollar loan.
ReplyDeleteZara,
ReplyDeleteI was hoping for a bit more about the construction workers. Funnily enough, I just came down the hill from Curtis and some guy in a hard hat wished me good morning. The good news is that I've sent an email to the Office of Student Affairs, and they assured me that he'll be issued a stern warning before his termination.
I can understand that spending another year here is a bummer, but why does that make this school ridiculously pretentious? The reason credits don't always transfer from a community college is because those classes aren't always as difficult to pass.
kittens in a basket,
julian
I don't have a whole lot more to say about the construction workers because, as I said, that rule is only a rumor to my knowledge.
ReplyDeleteThat's true, but they are GECs and have nothing to do with my major, so why shouldn't they transfer? It's ridiculous. When you have to take out a bunch of loans to attend school, you can talk to me about this topic.
Julian,
ReplyDeleteYou are such an asshole.
flaming turds,
Katie
Katie, that was in poor taste.
ReplyDeleteZara, liberal arts schools aren't only about taking courses for your major. That's why people come to a place like Denison. The courses for your major fulfill only half of the requirements for graduation. If you aren't interested in taking GE courses, OSU is only 35 miles down the road and I'm pretty sure they have rolling admission. If loans are your only concern then maybe you should consider it, it's cheaper too.
Kyle
Kyle, I am well aware of the benefits of a liberal arts college. If you remember, I made a very conscious decision to quit a wonderful job for this school, and I don't regret it for a second. Obviously I have to take GE courses, you are both ignoring the main point of my frustration.
ReplyDeleteI don't appreciate the demeaning tone from you.
Could you clarify your main point please?
ReplyDeleteThe main point of the blog post surrounds my frustration at the pretentiousness of this school and how it affects me.
ReplyDeleteThe main point of the argument in the comments is that I am frustrated that I may have to spend an extra twenty-thousand dollars so that I may receive the education I desire...not that I want to transfer to another, cheaper school, because I realize that what my current school has to offer is above that of many other colleges.
Kyle,
ReplyDeleteI can't help but notice how smug and arrogant you are. For your information I'm a transfer student from Ohio State's honors program (which is NOT on rolling admission). I think you would be hard pressed to find a significant group of people that weren't at least a little dissatisfied with the overall attitude on campus. However, I guess you don't notice and it doesn't bother you because you yourself are a condescending, pretentious douche bag.
--Katie
Katie,
ReplyDeletePlease don't attack my good friend Kyle for his perfectly reasonable inquiries. You don't know anything about him, and have no right to call him names. I know you about as well as anyone could ever want to though, and I feel pretty comfortable saying that no one cares about what program you came from. You seem to have mistaken a rational question about what Zara has said for condescension. I would say that you and Zara badmouthing people on this campus for coming from different social classes is more condescending than anything. Everyone has to pay to go here. Some people have huge scholarships, some have to go into debt, and some come from a family with the financial resources to pay for everything with no trouble. It's no use complaining about it, because this is how this society happens to function. I think that Kyle's suggestion about OSU is reasonable enough if finances are such a major concern. As far as pretentiousness goes, I have to agree that it is very much a negative part of this campus climate, but I think that even the most obnoxious rich kid is far more interesting to discuss things with than an unlettered transfer student with a chip on her shoulder.
Zara, your very first argument seemed to be that Denison ought to make an exception about their GE policy for you because you don't want to pay a bunch of money to take an extra semester. And who would want to pay more money? But do you really think that this would be an issue for you at all if your GEs were accepted? Would you still be so upset? I don't think so. I think that you are just upset, as well you should be, about having to shell out more money to an expensive institution. But these are the policies that make a degree from Denison (supposedly, I'm prepared to say that a Denison education is necessarily superior) better than some other universities. So, if you want to lament your current situation, go right ahead, I genuinely do sympathize with you. If you want to talk about pretentiousness, I'm all ears. Don't antagonize the people at your school for being here, or for where they came from, because that is just another form of classism.
I'd challenge both of you to respond to this without calling me names, and by thoroughly addressing any points you think are incorrect. Then I will respond, that is how a discussion works. Don't bother with calling me pretentious or patronizing, because I know that I am these things, and that is not a proper argument in itself.
-Julian
I've met many people at this school over a long, long period of time. My family has been a part of this school for longer than the two of you have been alive. I have met many students, faculty and administrators at this institution, very few of whom display this quality of pretentiousness that you are labeling, as far as I can tell, the entire institution with. What makes you think you have the power to do that? Do you think the school is pretentious because they won't take your credits from another institution? They have standards in the admissions office. That's not to say they think they are better than you, or that I'm implying that in any way. Instead, that means that they won't except every single credit that students bring to the table. Because they can't. If they do that then what's to separate Denison from any other school? Is it the students who are pretentious? Is that because there are some kids here who come from a higher social class then you? For your information, there are a lot of kids who come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. Here's one really good example: http://www.denison.edu/offices/publicaffairs/pressreleases/posse.html.That doesn't mean that every student here isn't pretentious, but certainly not all of them. There are a lot of good people here, at every level. Like every large body of individuals, there are some bad people as well, whatever that may mean.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's inconvenient that they won't take your credits. Maybe it's upsetting. Maybe it's even a little unfair. But the school isn't pretentious because they won't serve one individual to their utmost convenience.
And Katie, you're arguing like a middle-schooler. Leave the insults and language somewhere else. You've brought nothing to the discussion.
Well gentlemen it's been fun and thanks for attempting to point out what you feel are my educational inadequacies and my lacking upper class values. I appreciate the semi-witty banter and I am now thoroughly bored with this discussion. Enjoy your Thanksgivings.
ReplyDelete--Katie
I just spent about 25 minutes responding to both of your comments and then something went wrong and it deleted the entire thing. Because of this, I have decided not to respond in such great detail as I had previously.
ReplyDeleteHere are the basics.
1. I NEVER said that EVERYONE at this school has that attitude, so remove that from your arguments.
2. I did not criticize anyone because of their background or money. I criticized because of their attitude. Remove that point as well.
3. I very rarely receive special treatment; therefore, I very rarely expect it. I certainly do not think that Denison should accept all of my credits based on my individual situation. That would be selfish, unrealistic, and ridiculous. I am not that nieve.
4. This is directed mainly at Kyle. As you said, you literally grew up in Denison's environment which, by nature (nurture, technically), makes you automatically less aware of the happenings that surround you (obviously not completely unaware, you are much too intelligent for that). In addition, you and I grew up in entirely different economic locations, there is no denying that. Because of this, you cannot really understand my position, nor I yours. I have experienced many instances when someone with greater wealth than I has switched the way they speak to me as soon as they find out my financial situation. If you would like specific examples, I would be happy to share them with you in private.
5. I definitely know that I am not alone in my economic standing at this school. I work with a few people who are in similar positions. Once again, this is a statement that you guys got out of thin air, somehow.
6. I also realize that there are good people at this school. Do you think that I would be here if I didn't feel like there were? That would be an incredibly irresponsible choice on my part if that were the case.
Lastly, I'd like to point out that I'm not angry about this anymore. It's almost a nonissue, yet this debate goes on. It is seemingly pointless considering that no one is going to change their opinions, and we are all emotionally connected to one another, so there are other things underlying each person's argument whether you'd like to admit it or not.
I'd like to point out the simple fact that the Denison administration told Zara point blank when she was applying that all of her credits would transfer in full. They are now denying her that right.
ReplyDelete--Karen
Zara- yeah your situation sucks... i get it. plus Denison is a "high class" school and with "high class" wealth comes arrogance... thats usually the way it works.
ReplyDeleteEVERYONE ELSE:
God you guys need to get laid...... Youre all buthurt over nothing....
Wow all I want to say is that I completely understand Zara's main point from this whole blog that apparently most of you missed to begin with and I don't even go to the school, nor would I. I get why Zara chooses to go there because of the excellent education that Denison offers and Zara is a very intelligent person and deserves that education. But why should anyone have to pay more for such an education when you are surrounded by people on a daily basis that think they are better than others. It is rediculous and thank you Zara for this blog it was very interesting to read!
ReplyDeleteAll right being the most pretentious douchebag and now frat boy of our little clavacade of friends, i feel it is my time to weigh in on this subject. First off, i gotta agree with Julian and Kyle here, big surprise i know. Just because a college won't accept your credits from a lower university, be it a community college for you Zara or a christian college like in my case, doesn't mean that they are pretentious. It just means that they felt your classes did not meet the minimum standards in order to prepare you to move on to different coursework.
ReplyDeleteAnd on the note of OSU, which i am now a proud member of our fine undergraduate family: Katie I will say that I am almost sorry that you found the campus to be dissatisfying, though in my experience here it comes down much more to what you are willing to put into the experience. You get involved and get active, and all the naysayers on the sidelines you saw who have a dissatisfyed view of the campus seem to get left behind on the sidelines.
Zara, it seems you have a legitimate beef with the university for it, and i will be the first one to agree with you that another year in college with that much of a loan coming out is rough to say the least, but sometimes that is how the cookie crumbles. The university is private and unlike the state schools (OSU, OU, BGSU), it doesn't have to accept ohio community college credit. And while that is probably neither cool, fun, or fair in any way, that is just in fact the way that it is.
Oh and Katie, you argue like my little sister. Pointing out that my two buddies think less of you because you aren't of a high social economic class is probably the most laughable thing i have ever seen! Besides the ridiculous language that you are using makes me, a guy with as coarse of a tounge as they come, embarassed. Next time, try using like actual argumentative points instead of calling them "douchebags and assholes".
I know the issue seems settled and all, but good old douchebag me likes stirring up trouble like a motherfucker.
Doug
Hahaha Doug, I do miss your input on things. I hope to see you over winter break.
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing, I do not think that Denison is pretentious based solely on my credits, that just happened to be my point of frustration at the time I wrote this post. There are many other things that factor into my opinion, and I think it's silly that you guys are all reacting so strongly to something that doesn't matter anymore.
The only other thing I intend to respond to is that Katie's comment about the campus climate was in regard to Denison, not OSU. She had her reasons for transferring, but she LOVES OSU...trust me on that one.
Zara, you misspelled "naive".
ReplyDeleteFeigning boredom is a lame way to back out of an argument.
doug, ima kiss you on the mouth.
haha
ReplyDelete